I am an owner of a Citizen Eco-drive watch, and I have been to the web site to see what is wrong with mine. It does NOT keep a charge at all; I put it in the sun for about 5 hours and it seemed to be working.  By the next morning it was done, stopped.  My model is the eco-drive WR 200, and its about to get thrown out!  I had a Timex self-winding that lasted for 15 years, never had to wind it or replace a battery.  My wife gave me this watch about 4 years ago and I didn't know anything about it until this year when it stopped working.  I thought it was a battery driven watch until I checked online.  What a piece of junk.   The citizen website doesn't even show the instructions for this model. Its about time for another Seiko.

David J. Parquet

I sympathize with comments from others about the difficulty in setting up the Citizen eco drive perpetual calendar. I bought one of the first models to arrive in the UK and even the shop had trouble with the set up....... In my opinion the perpetual adjustment should be away from the stem adjustment of the hands. I messed mine up on a plane to Finland trying to alter the time. Without the instruction book I had to toss it into my suitcase for a week and buy a cheap regular battery quartz. That said however its not the eco drive system but the electronic adjustment of the perpetual that gave me difficulty. It LOOKS a straight forward watch...... But is it reasonable to have to keep the manual with you and be prepared to give up an afternoon if it looses it place as it were, either by a wrong twist of the stem or a hard knock? When I returned from this trip I went out and bought one of the last Citizen eco drive field models available here,( having given a model bought in 99 to my father.). This has a solid linked bracelet a domed mineral crystal ( far superior to flat sapphire in shatter resistance) which is itself shielded by the raised edges of the stainless steel bezel. The dial has luminous Arabic numerals and the domed crystal gives an interesting blue sheen to the face at times as light reflects back from the black looking solar cell. The whole watch has a classical understated elegance, but most importantly there is no electronic control of the functions. The hands and date have a mechanical connection to the stem.... So it takes less than 10 seconds to alter the date... Just the same as in a mechanical watch. I am amused at the whole situation really ( with the exception of having paid �350 for the eco perpetual :(.... It seems as though watch companies may have to sell technology to compete with sales with each other regardless of complexity for the customer. Maybe more advanced technology will result in a solution. Really a perpetual calendar watch should be set at the factory and not need owner input. Maybe its already on the drawing board? The eco dive perpetual with such a long charge life that no owner input possible or needed for the date (Unless of course its left in a drawer for 20yrs or so ..) If this stage is reached Citizen could in my opinion usefully re consider direct mechanical linkage of the stem to the hands.....After all, without the date to adjust by such tortuous means, there would be need for electronic adjustment.....
In Summary,
The Citizen eco drive system is in my opinion the best watch power system available today. The perpetual eco drive calendar should need less involvement from the customer .. We await technology to come to future owners rescue.... but in the final analysis do you really need it?
My advice.... consider an Eco-Drive BJ8000-57F (Field) try a web search, still some around in the UK, not sure if they ever were exported to the USA. MSB, UK

I have just bought a Citizen Eco Drive watch online in the UK so I was fascinated by some of the comments in the owner's reviews. A few weeks ago my Seiko watch of nearly 25 years gave up so I wanted a watch with all the features I was used to plus the convenience of not having to change the battery every 2-3 years. I looked at Seiko's current models but none of them covered all the features bases, so I looked elsewhere. In the end I bought one from the Citizen Modena range, the BL5110-52E. Titanium, perpetual calender, chronograph, alarm etc. The first thing I noticed when I unpacked it sounds remarkably like the problem Dave describes elsewhere about his diver's watch and the watch hands. The second hand on my watch was a fraction out on every increment around the dial. In chronograph mode and 0 position check it was even more noticeable. It really began to irritate me--I just couldn't ignore it, so a couple of days later I returned it for a replacement which so far (a few days!) seems to be OK. The main criticism I would have thus far is the tricky instruction booklet. It takes you through a series of checks to make sure the watch is working properly but if you screw them up it takes ages to put right; a whole afternoon may go by as you try to get everything back to base position using the crown and buttons, and if you don't the damn thing won't work properly. It comes down to waiting for the interconnected hour and minute hands to turn all the way around the dial through the 24 hour clock. And setting the alarm is a major pain for the same reason. Now I just have to adjust the bracelet...

E. Berelian

I wish I could be as enthusiastic about my Citizen Eco-drive watch as most of the other reviewers. If you're thinking of buying a titanium-cased BL0030, my advice is - don 't! I have owned one for several months and it simply cannot get the date right. First of all, the so-called 'perpetual calendar' failed to cope with the change of month, so my supplier sent it back to Citizen under the guarantee. When it came back from Citizen - having been allegedly 'set properly' - it was a day ahead! So back it went again. The chief engineer was very sympathetic; he actually insisted on speaking to me in person in the shop and told me that he would personally put in a new movement. It returned from Citizen about 10 days ago and correctly registered the first day of October. At last, I thought, we're home and dry. What naive optimism. Late yesterday afternoon (Friday 4 October), I noticed that my Eco-Drive watch was claiming that it was already 5 October! So back I went to the shop this morning, Saturday 5 October. Of course, the watch was still reading '5', which made it -for the time being - accurate. It was suggested that it had probably been set on the wrong 12 hour cycle, and would move to '6' at 12 noon. So I left it with them to confirm this and make the necessary correction. I returned at about 3.30pm and cannot say that I was astonished to find that it had not changed at noon. It was still reading '5', by now the correct date. I also began to pick up gentle hints that I may have mis-read it yesterday. Hah! About an hour ago (4.30pm. Saturday 5 October) the date changed to '6'.
If you really want a solar-powered time-piece, my advice is: think about a sun-dial. Tricky diving with one, though. On the other hand, you won't be tempted to catch the rising sun when driving due north in the morning by placing your left-hand (assuming that's where you wear your watch) on the right-hand side of your steering wheel - or behind your head when you turn left and head due west.
Watch this space for the next episode
Geoff Berridge, www.grberridge.co.uk

I have a Titanium Eco Drive watch which I bought for the same reason cited by most other reviewers - its very accurate and hassle free in as much as it doesn't need to be taken to the jeweler every 2 years for a new battery.

The model I have is water resistant to 100M and herein lies the problem. After swimming with it for the first time the glass was frosted up with condensation Under the guarantee Citizen (UK) dried out the watch and re sealed it for me. Six months later (my next mediterannean holiday) the first time I went swimming the watch let in water yet again.

The net result is that my watch has been in the jeweler more often that if I had bought a normal battery watch. The idea of a Solar watch is still very appealing to me but definitely not a Citizen. I am glad to see that Seiko have recently introduced Solar powered watches and I shall be checking these out very soon.

In summary, whilst my Citizen ECO Drive watch is both handsome and accurate, it remains fundamentally flawed and I therefore feel unable to recommend it.

I'm glad to see others talking about the virtues of these watches. I just picked one up yesterday for what 
seems like a great price. I was looking for a dive watch and had seen the Diver's 200m (APO440) in one
store listed at $375 Canadian. This seemed a bit expensive to me as I am used to paying about half
that for a decent dive watch. However, the fact that it was solar and the construction of the case (one piece back)
had me considering it. Anyway, I went to another store yesterday and they were selling them for 50% off 
(listed at $395 Can), so I picked one up for $197.5 Canadian or about $128 US. I am hoping to enjoy this watch 
on many dives for years to come.

Cheers
Alec Dale

While the technology may vary somewhat, the Li-ion battery for our Dell laptop is rated at 400 cycles. At 6 months per cycle, that gives us something like 200 years as a theoretical maximum for the Eco-Drive 180 watches. Okay, I admit that I haven't purchased one -- yet. I'm still deciding on which one would best suit me. I'm most seriously considering the BL0030-57L http://www.citizenwatch.com/hero/BL0030-57L.HTML

 -- 300 days, all titanium, water "resistant" to 100 meters, luminous pips on the dial, perpetual calendar. 

-Tom Schwerdt 

I just recieved my Citizen Eco-Drive Titanium Chronograph + Dive watch,
AP5190-55A (with the white face).  I am pretty happy with the price I
got.  Retail is $495 MSRP, got it at www.worldwatches.com for $212
(including CA tax and 2nd Day shipping).  It shows Current time, 24 hour
time (unnecessary I think), Alarm (distinguishes AM/PM, 15 sec beeping),
Chronograph with lap timer.  200M water resist (contrary to their own
website that only promises 100M).

Overall a very nice looking watch and VERY light with the titanium band.
The hands are ever so slightly off by 2-3 degrees counterclockwise
though.  Don't know if this is a quality problem in general of if it is
just a fluke with this one (heck, maybe they sold me a "second"?).
Isn't very noticible, and effects the function not at all.  If it
bothers me, I will try sending it in to Citizen to see what they can do.

The bracelet/band is bulletproof with a double locking clasp
arrangement.  It would be hard to use with a wetsuit however as there is
no spring loaded expanding clasp, rather the band has to be adjusted by
a good watch repair shop (or you if you have the proper punch tools) to
remove the pins used on holding the band together.  Haven't dove with it
yet.

The timekeeping is very accurate as should be expected for a quartz
driven watch.  The solar recharging is fast in bright sunlight.
Titanium conducts heat readily so it does heat up a bit in the sun.  It
does however feel really nice against the skin, matching the skin temp
quickly.  The chronograph function is very good, keeping track down to
1/20th of a second.  Unfortunately it only times to 60 min max (unless
you keep track yourself on the rotating bezel).  The Alarm is frankly a
pain in the ass to use.  When you enter the alarm mode, the hands rotate
all the way around to the set alarm time, but this is REALLY slow unless
you happen to be close to the pre-set alarm time.  ie.  Your current
time is 8am, the alarm was set previously to 8 pm, the hands take
several minutes to wind all the way around until they show 8pm!  This is
on account of the hands not being moved independently, but linked
together staticaly with the 24 hour time display.  I'm probably not
describing this right, but trust me, it is a PAIN.  It would work much
better if the Hour, Minute and 24hr hands were independent and could
jump straight to either the current time or the alarm time instead of
winding all the way there.

Overall, for how good it looks and how sturdy this watch is, I am very
happy.  Especially at 40% of MSRP!!  Not happy with the alarm though.
The slight malalignment of the hands is a bummer too, will take that up
with Citizen's service dept (am I being overly anal about this?).

BTW, there is now screw down crown on this thing as you set the time and
control the watch with the pushbuttons.  Does anyone know if it is bad
to push these buttons under water or under water at pressure?

Dave
[email protected]

Hi,Just bought aCitizen promaster field,(eco drive) �125 here in England.For years I have bought Swiss watches and I am astounded at the quality of the citizen compared with them.I have a Tag-Heur sports 2000,which cost �450 and what can I say?Check out the deployment buckle on the two watches next time you go in a wrist watch shop.The Tag-heur sports has a "feature"where the number 10 on the dial is not fully covered with luminous paint because to do so would not allow the hour hand to pass over the zero on the number 10!Tag-Heur are aware of this and consider it a feature of the watch and its not obvious unless you go into a darkened room with it or examine it with a magnifying glass because there is a green background to the luminous paint!!I much prefer the design integrity of the Citizen Eco Drive.I also own an Omega Speed Master which always lost time even when straight from the shop in 1980.Regarding solar power,I found a U.S patent dated 1974 for a solar dial with a date orifice ,registered from Tokyo.I worked in the retail trade in the late 1970's and remember a solar powered wrist watch which worked as long as you kept replacing the battery.I am sure the Swiss watch industry "targets" its watches into "prestige "price structure bands ,which does not necessarily reflect quality in the actual watch.This is evident by one famous name that costs �1500 here with a conventional quartz movement battery change every 18 months..Light power has to be the ultimate power system for a watch, there are some sophisticated alternatives ,kinetic,relay kinetic and a temperature gradient drive ,but all alternatives depend on being worn or handled at some time unlike Eco drive.Incidentally,I suspect That the capacitors in earlier Eco drive watches are more durable as there is no chemical reaction in charging and discharging a capacitor unlike the current secondary batteries.However it would be nice to be wrong on this! Any comment on battery longevity from Citizen?  

Mike Ball
England

12/28/99

Wanted to note it is not needed to professionally adjust the Citizen Eco
Drive watch. I own the Eco Drive World Timer (love it!!) and was able to
remove the extra band links using a simple thumbtack. This is not to be
confused with the spring loaded pins in the actual clasp which does not need
adjusting.

Note the direction arrows on the inside of the watch band. Using a thumbtack
to press the pin on the side of a watchband link in the direction of these
arrows will pop out the lynchpin on the other side. Remove the excessive
links and reinsert the pin(s) the same way it came out (use the tack to
press it in the last bit). The pin has one flared end and this is what locks
it in place, so replace it the same way it came out to ensure fit. My band
was too large by two links, so I removed one link from each side of the
clasp.

Cheers,
Frans

Don Damiani's review made me feel good about my own Eco-Drive watch. I bought mine when I was in Japan back in 1995, and it has been working very well since then.  Its model name, ATTESA, is written in black all cap letters on a gold nautilus image near the 3:00 position.

Anyway, I was wondering if all the Citizen Eco-Drive watches sold in the US have Li+ (lithium ion) rechargeable batteries in them. This is because mine doesn't have a rechargeable battery, but instead has a capacitor for storing electricity.  I guess back in 1995 Li+ batteries weren't perfected yet.

Although mine stores electricity in a capacitor, it hasn't died on me yet since I wear it everyday
at work or at home--the bracelet is titanium alloy all throughout, and its light silky feeling makes it a joy to wear.

What makes my Eco-Drive very unique (i.e., I haven't found this model here in the US) is that its whole face glows blue-green when subjected to UV light.  It glows just like Timex's Indiglo does except that it's based on UV sensitive material instead.

Alex

Just read your review of the Citizen solar-powered Eco-Drive watch and
noted your comment that you were surprised that it had taken so long to
develop a solar-powered watch. You will be interested to know that I
purchased a Citizen solar-powered wrist watch in 1986 (before the days
of lithium ion batteries) and it has performed flawlessly since that
time. It takes somewhat longer to charge (several hours in bright
sunlight and about 8 hours under a desk lamp) and the charge only last a
few days, but it keeps perfect time. If I wear it continuously, I
needn't worry about the charge level. It is an elegantly designed watch
and I am often asked where I purchased it. I have not seen another
since.

Ray Marusyk

I bought the Solar Tech 180.  It replaces the two Rolex's that I used to
have in Vietnam (Submariner and Jubilee DateJust.  They're history and I
couldn't afford another one now).  The Citizen doesn't have the status
of the Rolex but the more I wear it, the less painful the loss of the
Rolex becomes, except for nostalgia over the combat action the DateJust
went through with me, like the early morning we were hit and I checked
the time in the trench.  The VC loved attacks at 1:30 A.M. and again at
close to dawn.  And yes, the Rolex stayed waterproof in downpours as
heavy as a car wash.  But then if I had my Citizen solar at that time,
I'm sure it would have performed equally well.  I've begun to justify
that this is a better watch for me anyway. Every five years, the Rolex
needs a cleaning and check up for $400, (and don't let just any jeweler
touch it for less because he'll screw it up big time).  It also will
stop running if you take it off for more than two days.  And its
accuracy changes, depending on what position you leave it in when you
place it on the bedside table.  The Citizen solar (or any quartz watch)
will stay accurate regardless of it's position, and it will run for six
months whether you wear it or not.  Of course we don't buy Rolex's
anymore for their accuracy.  We buy them because they're Rolex's.  For
the quartz watch debate, such as battery VS solar, it can be argued that
solar isn't necessary because you can easily bring your regular battery
watch into a jeweler every year and he'll replace it for under $10.
Problem is that you never know when the battery quits. They don't always
last a year, either.  And once he opens it, it's no longer guaranteed
water proof until it's been sent to the authorized repair facility for a
pressure test (for another $25 + shipping both ways).  One comment about
the Solar Tech 180, is that the service center recommended that the
watch be sent in every five years to check the seal, for about a $25
charge.  Every twelve years, the internal battery should be replaced.  I
think I can live with that.  (When I was younger, I used to wonder how
long my watch would last.  At my age now, I wonder how long I will
last).  Anyway, it's unbelievably accurate at +/- 20 seconds a month,
and very comfortable to wear.  I normally don't like large bracelets or
heavy watches.  This one is very light and flat - I'm not even aware
it's on my wrist until I glance at it, and it doesn't get in the way of
my sleeve.  Guess I couldn't ask for more, and this model will serve as
my diver's watch as well, making it really a two for one deal.  So when
I go back to Vietnam, I suppose I won't head for the nearest duty free
shop to buy a Rolex (for $3,650).  What I have now is OK.  Gotta move
on, you know, and not look back.   

Mark Reveaux

Nice review, but way too much dough for me.
Besides, regular batteries last over a year, and cost under $10.
- Tom
San Carlos

Hi
I have an Eco Drive Titanium "World Timer" and love it.
Actually, if you read the directions carefully, there IS a replaceable
battery but when this needs to be replaced is never addressed.
As far as "cons" about having the bracelet adjusted, this is true for
all bracelet watches, whether they cost $10.00 or $10,000.00.  Usually
you can save more than enough money, ordering the watch online so that
if you have to pay for the adjustment, it is well worth it.

Alan V. Bornstein

From Don Damiani in regards to the message above:

Alan,

Regarding the battery replacement, I discussed this with the owner of the
watch store where I bought the watch.

He told me that they specify to replace the battery every 2 years for
maximum performance. But, then he added that the divers watches should
never be opened, because to break the seal would compromise it's
water-resistance.  He told me that you would probably never need to replace
the battery as long as you use the watch regularly. Just having the watch
exposed to light keeps the battery charged.

It kind of makes sense when you think of it.  Your World Timer watch has a
charge of 70 days. My watch has a charge of 180 days. If we use my watch as
an example, that would mean that the battery will power the watch on a full
charge for 6 months. If I needed to replace it every 2 years, that would
imply it was only good for 4 charges. That is probably not the case.

By the way, World Timer is a beautiful watch.

Don Damiani